Conference Realignment

[forensicbuzz]

As I recall, the ACC had total subscribers of 46 million last year vs. 48 million for the SEC. The ACCN itself is doing what it was supposed to do. I still think you need to evaluate the combination of both ND and the ACCN to get the true picture of the ACC vs the other P2 conferences, at least, an indirect comparison.

The article is correct about FInebaum. He has done a great job of putting together a show that is an essential part of SEC Game Days. Charles Barkley has "retired" from broadcasting, but I think it makes sense for the ACC to make a run at him, or some other, to help create an ACC alternative. (I can't think of any ACC personalities right now, but even Finebaum was just a columnist when he started.)

He went to Auburn.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Personally, I don't like Finebaum very much. He is part of the current ESPN trend of "argumentary" programming that does not appeal to me. These days, I tune in to ESPN for the games I want to watch, but turn it off for everything else.

Agree. Don’t know when raising people’s blood pressure became insightful commentary.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I can simultaneously believe multiple things

1. Large land grant schools with big stadiums and nothing else to do offer a huge advantage in ratings. The SEC and B1G have the biggest revenue schools right now
2. There’s a big demographic problem coming. 20-year-olds don’t watch TV. Netflix and Prime are things. College football, less so.
3. There are media narratives and there are conference narratives. The ACC should have beaten the drum loudly to get FSU into the CFP last year. It doesn’t matter whether or not it would be effective—you don’t get what you don’t ask for, and while you might look weak for getting rejected, you look even worse for not asking.
4. For (3), conferences should have a coherent message. The ACC doesn’t. The Big 12 does.
5. FSU acted and still acts like ***holes. We should have still backed them up strongly
6. The ACC should have a plan and it should work that plan. Waiting and seeing is not a plan.

Concise and brilliant as always my friend. You have captured the tensions that exist within thoughtful fans.

 

[Vespidae]

For (3), conferences should have a coherent message. The ACC doesn’t. The Big 12 does.

At the ACC conference meetings, this was discussed. Here is the summary:

"While coaches said the ACC needs to have more football-focused marketing and messaging, Phillips noted that the conference cable network is “dominated” by football coverage, but the league is planning to do more.

“When I came here, I got crucified because I said the future is going to be dictated by football and the basketball coaches were really upset,” Phillips said."

We often overlook the importance of basketball to many of the ACC schools and the internal dynamics that causes.

 

[orientalnc]

Article says ACC and FSU fail in mediation but continue to negotiate? to me, it sounds like you would still be in mediation if you are still negotiating. maybe one of our lawyer types could explain if this means anything?

MSN

I do not know who is representing the ACC in mediation, but they cannot bind the conference without a vote of the members. It could be, and this is just a guess, the reps for FSU made an offer and asked the ACC to put it up for a vote. The idea that the ACC would cave in at this stage is pretty farfetched.

 

[Vespidae]

I do not know who is representing the ACC in mediation, but they cannot bind the conference without a vote of the members. It could be, and this is just a guess, the reps for FSU made an offer and asked the ACC to put it up for a vote. The idea that the ACC would cave in at this stage is pretty farfetched.

Mediation isn't binding. The ACC can simply sit in its chair, arms crossed, and say no until everyone agrees that litigation is the only alternative. And here we are again, the FSU is pretty much suing to leave but has not and probably will not, serve notice that it wants to leave the conference.

Drag it out ...

 

[RamblinRed]

"From a revenue and a sales standpoint, I would say it's exceeded our expectations. I would say it is extraordinarily successful."

ACC Network, turning 5, delivers revenue, exposure boost for league :: WRALSportsFan.com

It took a long time for the ACC to get its prestige network, which launched on Aug. 22, 2019. The network has brought in additional revenue and exposure for the league. What it has not done is brought stability.

www.wralsportsfan.com

This is simply another reason I find it extremely unlikely ESPN would jeopardize its relationship with the ACC.
You don't destroy a relationship where you say it is exceeding your expectations and is extraodinarily successful.

That also shows that the ACC Network is very valuable to both the ACC and ESPN given it is a 50/50 joint venture in terms of profits and there is documentation from FY 21-22 that shows ESPN paid more than $9M per member institution to the ACC that year for ACC Network (a VT Blog pulled that out from some documents).
So if FSU is saying ESPN owed the ACC $270M for that Fiscal year, I suspect that is a revenue number and the profit number is roughly 50% of that (which would get you to the payout number ESPN gave to the ACC/schools for that year).

 

[WreckinGT]

This is simply another reason I find it extremely unlikely ESPN would jeopardize its relationship with the ACC.
You don't destroy a relationship where you say it is exceeding your expectations and is extraodinarily successful.

That also shows that the ACC Network is very valuable to both the ACC and ESPN given it is a 50/50 joint venture in terms of profits and there is documentation from FY 21-22 that shows ESPN paid more than $9M per member institution to the ACC that year for ACC Network (a VT Blog pulled that out from some documents).
So if FSU is saying ESPN owed the ACC $270M for that Fiscal year, I suspect that is a revenue number and the profit number is roughly 50% of that (which would get you to the payout number ESPN gave to the ACC/schools for that year).

The majority of the ACC Networks revenue comes from cable tv network fees that are negotiated as part of much larger multi media agreements between Disney and carriers. The real value to ESPN in the future is how willing are these carriers to continue with the ACC network and what rates they can charge for them in the future. We have no way of knowing anything about these numbers. No ratings information is ever released about the ACCN. We have no idea what the real value of the ACCN is or what it is projected to be going forward. When Disney has to renegotiate the media rights deal with Comcast, is Comcast willing to pay more for the ACC network while their overall subscriber numbers continue to dwindle? Who knows. When we eventually reach an all streaming future, does the ACC Network have any value at all to ESPN? Also a big unknown.

 

[slugboy]

At the ACC conference meetings, this was discussed. Here is the summary:

"While coaches said the ACC needs to have more football-focused marketing and messaging, Phillips noted that the conference cable network is “dominated” by football coverage, but the league is planning to do more.

“When I came here, I got crucified because I said the future is going to be dictated by football and the basketball coaches were really upset,” Phillips said."

We often overlook the importance of basketball to many of the ACC schools and the internal dynamics that causes.

The Big 12 seems to have focus, and treats basketball well.

It seems like we make problems for ourselves.

 

[orientalnc]

The majority of the ACC Networks revenue comes from cable tv network fees that are negotiated as part of much larger multi media agreements between Disney and carriers. The real value to ESPN in the future is how willing are these carriers to continue with the ACC network and what rates they can charge for them in the future. We have no way of knowing anything about these numbers. No ratings information is ever released about the ACCN. We have no idea what the real value of the ACCN is or what it is projected to be going forward. When Disney has to renegotiate the media rights deal with Comcast, is Comcast willing to pay more for the ACC network while their overall subscriber numbers continue to dwindle? Who knows. When we eventually reach an all streaming future, does the ACC Network have any value at all to ESPN? Also a big unknown.

Live sports overshadows everything else on television ( including streaming), so sports content is not going away anytime soon.

 

[RonJohn]

The majority of the ACC Networks revenue comes from cable tv network fees that are negotiated as part of much larger multi media agreements between Disney and carriers. The real value to ESPN in the future is how willing are these carriers to continue with the ACC network and what rates they can charge for them in the future. We have no way of knowing anything about these numbers. No ratings information is ever released about the ACCN. We have no idea what the real value of the ACCN is or what it is projected to be going forward. When Disney has to renegotiate the media rights deal with Comcast, is Comcast willing to pay more for the ACC network while their overall subscriber numbers continue to dwindle? Who knows. When we eventually reach an all streaming future, does the ACC Network have any value at all to ESPN? Also a big unknown.

In the immediate future, the ACCN revenue will go up. The per subscriber rates just went up in the #5 and #10 media markets. The three new teams just increased the revenue by somewhere around $60 million per year.

In 20 years, direct streaming of sports will probably be greater than linear stations. However, there have been predictions for 10-15 years that linear cable would be out of business within 5 years. It has declined, but hasn't gone away. ESPN still makes the majority of their income from linear TV subscribers. Streaming/internet income is still a very small fraction of their revenue. ESPN is in a catch 22 position. They know that long term, 20-30 years, they can't depend on linear TV subscriptions. However, they can't go all in on streaming because they would immediately lose 60-70% of their revenue. The cable companies are pushing to have the internet and streaming content included in the subscription costs to their customers. (They are asking if their subscribers are paying $15-18 per month for all of the ESPN stations, why should they be locked out of a $5-7 subscription for sports news stories?) Things are changing. Things will change. But it will take many years or a few decades instead of only a few years. ESPN will probably still be making a majority of their revenue from linear TV subscriptions when the ACC contract ends in 2036. There is no reason for them to turn down a few hundred million per year during that time.

 

[Vespidae]

The Big 12 seems to have focus, and treats basketball well.

It seems like we make problems for ourselves.

I don't think it's any different than say, Kentucky. Bear Bryant won an SEC football championship there (their first and perhaps only one) and Adolph Rupp earned an umpteenth SEC title for basketball. Bryant joking said that UK gave Rupp a Cadillac whereas the gave him a cigarette lighter. He promptly left and went to schools that took football more seriously.

The ACC, particularly Tobacco Road, takes basketball seriously. I can understand the internal politics.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

The ACC, particularly Tobacco Road, takes basketball seriously. I can understand the internal politics.

Hence, why every team school who cares about football is planning on leaving as soon as they can. FSU and Clemson are just the ones taking the initial PR hit by ignorant ACC fanbases. The ACC is not a viable football league, not because the polls rank us low but because our own league office is fine with the status quo. We have an internal problem and the external is just taking advantage of that.

 

[iceeater1969]

Hence, why every team school who cares about football is planning on leaving as soon as they can. FSU and Clemson are just the ones taking the initial PR hit by ignorant ACC fanbases. The ACC is not a viable football league, not because the polls rank us low but because our own league office is fine with the status quo. We have an internal problem and the external is just taking advantage of that.

UNC is ACC.
THEY WILL not go down with the ship.
Prepare accordingly.

UNC had a non existent class that athletes took but remained un named. Gt guy got handed a t-shirt and acc title vacated.
If u are at the card table and u wondering who the sucker is, it is u.

 

[TechPhi97]

At the ACC conference meetings, this was discussed. Here is the summary:

"While coaches said the ACC needs to have more football-focused marketing and messaging, Phillips noted that the conference cable network is “dominated” by football coverage, but the league is planning to do more.

“When I came here, I got crucified because I said the future is going to be dictated by football and the basketball coaches were really upset,” Phillips said."

We often overlook the importance of basketball to many of the ACC schools and the internal dynamics that causes.

Honestly, it shouldn't be one or the other. Why can't we do both? They happen at different times of the year....

 

[TechPhi97]

In the immediate future, the ACCN revenue will go up. The per subscriber rates just went up in the #5 and #10 media markets. The three new teams just increased the revenue by somewhere around $60 million per year.

In 20 years, direct streaming of sports will probably be greater than linear stations. However, there have been predictions for 10-15 years that linear cable would be out of business within 5 years. It has declined, but hasn't gone away. ESPN still makes the majority of their income from linear TV subscribers. Streaming/internet income is still a very small fraction of their revenue. ESPN is in a catch 22 position. They know that long term, 20-30 years, they can't depend on linear TV subscriptions. However, they can't go all in on streaming because they would immediately lose 60-70% of their revenue. The cable companies are pushing to have the internet and streaming content included in the subscription costs to their customers. (They are asking if their subscribers are paying $15-18 per month for all of the ESPN stations, why should they be locked out of a $5-7 subscription for sports news stories?) Things are changing. Things will change. But it will take many years or a few decades instead of only a few years. ESPN will probably still be making a majority of their revenue from linear TV subscriptions when the ACC contract ends in 2036. There is no reason for them to turn down a few hundred million per year during that time.

The announcement that Disney, Fox and Warner Bros. are launching an all-sports streaming service (Venu Sports: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sports-streaming-service-monthly-price-venu/) will put all of this to the test. I'm definitely going to cancel my Hulu subscription and move to this.

 

[TampaBuzz]

The announcement that Disney, Fox and Warner Bros. are launching an all-sports streaming service (Venu Sports: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sports-streaming-service-monthly-price-venu/) will put all of this to the test. I'm definitely going to cancel my Hulu subscription and move to this.

I think I read that HULU was suing to prevent this on monopoly grounds. My interpretation is that Hulu/Sling and others would lose the vast majority of their subscribers if this happens. A lot of folks are like me and subscribe to Sling during football season, or perhaps for a special event; otherwise no subscription.

 

[WreckinGT]

Live sports overshadows everything else on television ( including streaming), so sports content is not going away anytime soon.

Im not saying that live sports is going away, im saying im not sure what the market truly is for the ACCN. If you remember, Comcast passed on the ACCN for two years. They obviously had concerns from the get go. By the time they have to renew with Disney, they will have actual data on the value of the network from their side. Information that we don't have and never will have. Hopefully, it actually is doing well.

 

[dmurdock]

I think I read that HULU was suing to prevent this on monopoly grounds. My interpretation is that Hulu/Sling and others would lose the vast majority of their subscribers if this happens. A lot of folks are like me and subscribe to Sling during football season, or perhaps for a special event; otherwise no subscription.

It was FuboTV - Hulu is owned by Disney so they wouldn't sue themselves.

Judge blocks plans for sports streaming service from Fox, ESPN and Warner Bros., citing antitrust concerns

United States District Judge Margaret M. Garnett in the Southern District of New York said in her 69-page ruling that Fubo was likely to be successful in proving that the joint venture would violate antitrust laws.

www.pbs.org

 

[RonJohn]

The announcement that Disney, Fox and Warner Bros. are launching an all-sports streaming service (Venu Sports: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sports-streaming-service-monthly-price-venu/) will put all of this to the test. I'm definitely going to cancel my Hulu subscription and move to this.

That is on hold. There is an anti-trust lawsuit against the companies forming the streaming service and the judge issued an injunction. Just guessing, that since it is in the courts, it will take at least a year to be resolved. Supposedly a Wanner Bros. attorney claimed that an injunction would likely kill plans for the service altogether.

Fubo filed the lawsuit. Among their claims is that Disney requires non-sports stations to be included in packages in order to be allowed to carry ESPN stations, and that they cannot provide the Disney non-sports stations without bundling ESPN. Fubo is basically arguing that the sports content providers are putting together a sports-only service, but conspiring to prevent any other providers from having either a sports only or no sports service. That would leave consumers who only want sports with an option to get less expensive programming, but consumers who want to allow their kids to watch Lilo & Stitch episodes no option other than a package that includes expensive sports stations.

Spectrum had the fight with Disney over the expense of ESPN and their consumers having to pay high fees for ESPN and then more to get the ESPN+ content. I think Venu was sort of a response to that. We consumers are stuck in the middle of a battle among large companies.