Conference Realignment

[Augusta_Jacket]

The GOR is a hostage document

Hyperbole

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

If the ACC attempts to refuse the ability to buy back rights then the ACC bylaws have been superseded.

Can you link to the specific section of the bylaws you are referencing?

 

[WreckinGT]

Speaking of hyperbole… is this it?
Did you mean 2025?
Very few are talking 2035 by my estimation.
My unscientific polling of this site puts 90% of us in the 2030-2033 range for dissensions.
I would be surprised if anyone is gone in the next five years and SHOCKED if we are intact in 2035.

Is the GOR less enforcable after 2030? How can you be so sure that the ACC will not even entertain the idea of letting FSU repurchase their media rights in 2029 but will be more than willing in 2030? Why wouldnt they force FSU and every other ACC team to stay for the full length of the GOR?

 

[yeti92]

That section is a larger section detailing why the GOR is not a penalty which was asserted in FSU's lawsuit. Obviously the ACC does not want this to be seen as a penalty because that increases the likelyhood of relief from the courts. In this section they flat out state that it isn't a penalty because FSU can engage in a commercial transaction to repurchase the rights at a fair market value. Im sure you can understand that the argument that we own the rights and will not allow them to repurchase is different than the argument that they can repurchase, right? Now tell me in your expert legal opinion, how does the the ACC saying that FSU can attempt to repurchase their media rights actually mean that they have no reason to ever allow FSU to attempt to repurchase their media rights? How do those two concepts mean the same thing?

I'm sorry dude but either your understanding of legalese is horrible or you are being intentionally obtuse. Someone else has said it in this thread numerous times, but apparently not enough. Words have specific meanings in law.

Attempting to purchase and purchasing are not the same thing. Preventing the attempt at purchase and refusing to sell are not the same thing. The first could be considered a penalty, the ACC cannot do that, and they are saying we aren't doing that and there is no provision to do that in the GOR. Any team in the conference can attempt to buy their media rights back. But the ACC is not obligated to sell either just because the buyer wants them to.

As for the part of your quote I bolded, nobody is saying that they have no reason to ever allow FSU to attempt to repurchase their media rights. If FSU offers enough money that it makes financial sense for all interested parties, I'm sure they will strike a deal. They are not obligated to, but they can and probably will once the time and value porposition is right. But the hyperbole train keeps on rolling down the tracks...

 

[WreckinGT]

Can you link to the specific section of the bylaws you are referencing?

Are we really wanting to go through this circle again? The bylaws that describe the process for leaving and the exit fees. Both of which don't really exist as a team can't leave due to the GOR.

 

[WreckinGT]

I'm sorry dude but either your understanding of legalese is horrible or you are being intentionally obtuse. Someone else has said it in this thread numerous times, but apparently not enough. Words have specific meanings in law.

Where did you get your law degree from?

 

[CEB]

Is the GOR less enforcable after 2030? How can you be so sure that the ACC will not even entertain the idea of letting FSU repurchase their media rights in 2029 but will be more than willing in 2030? Why wouldnt they force FSU and every other ACC team to stay for the full length of the GOR?

The GOR is enforceable until 2036. I view both the time horizon and the potential cost of buying out to become far more feasible at the five year(ish) mark. Not to mention, other major conferences will be in the midst of renegotiations at that time so there is greater opportunity for full inclusion / payout immediately upon successful exit.

 

[WreckinGT]

The GOR is enforceable until 2036. I view both the time horizon and the potential cost of buying out to become far more feasible at the five year(ish) mark. Not to mention, other major conferences will be in the midst of renegotiations at that time so there is greater opportunity for full inclusion / payout immediately upon successful exit.

Why would the ACC be worried about what other conferences are doing? If anything they should delay until after the other conferences strike their new deals right? To keep their teams locked up so they cant leave? You guys can't argue that the GOR is unbreakable and the ACC will never let FSU leave and then say, ah maybe in this random year they will change their mind. That makes no sense.

 

[CEB]

SMU is foregoing roughly $280m to join the ACC. They are spending that money for prestige. FSU wants to be in either the SEC or Big10 for prestige., but first they need to get out of the ACC. They will spend a lot of money to do that. Is that $500m; is it $750m? I don't know what the number is, but it will be a big number.

SMU is foregoing $280 mil? How much was the AAC paying?

I thought it was relatively neutral in terms of the move. I don’t thing they had a big exit fee did they? even though they get a partial share compared to other ACC teams, I’m not sure the decision for them is the same. Perspective, I guess

 

[CEB]

Why would the ACC be worried about what other conferences are doing? If anything they should delay until after the other conferences strike their new deals right? To keep their teams locked up so they cant leave? You guys can't argue that the GOR is unbreakable and the ACC will never let FSU leave and then say, ah maybe in this random year they will change their mind. That makes no sense.

The ACC doesn’t give a darn what the other conferences are doing. The teams trying to leave the ACC do.

Leaving teams will pay more to leave if a full share is waiting immediately.
ACC will be increasingly inclined to entertain payment as the natural termination approaches.

 

[WreckinGT]

The ACC doesn’t give a darn what the other conferences are doing. The teams trying to leave the ACC do.

That doesn't matter unless you get a majority of teams to dissolve the conference. The ACC will block other teams from leaving as well won't they? Why wouldnt they?

 

[stinger78]

Where does the ACC filing say ANYTHING about fair market value? It simply says they can attempt to purchase the media rights. It doesn't say that the ACC will sell them. It doesn't say that the ACC will even entertain an offer to purchase them. It simply says that it is a commercial transaction and FSU can attempt to purchase those rights if they want to.

And before you change what I am saying into something else. The ACC will most certainly entertain offers if it is advantageous to the ACC. If FSU secures $1 trillion and wants to pay that for the media rights, the other members of the ACC will definitely sign as soon as they can. If FSU offers ten dollars, the ACC will not sell. Most on this thread seem to believe that the ACC will not sell for a lowball number, because if they don't sell the ACC will receive those payments anyway. You seem to think that the ACC can be negotiated down from the ESPN contracted numbers.

I agree, there is no way the ACC will sell below the contracted numbers, unless F$U were to offer to pay it some lump sum manner that offers the ability to bank the funds and draw interest. Half a bil for 10 years could draw a hefty amount of interest and could offer F$U a chance to save some on their total cost.

 

[yeti92]

Where did you get your law degree from?

Do you think a law degree is a requirement to know that words in a contract have specific meanings?

 

[WreckinGT]

Do you think a law degree is a requirement to know that words in a contract have specific meanings?

I think you and others here are cherry picking which words you want to have meaning and which ones you want to ignore while pretending you have legal expertise.

 

[RonJohn]

That doesn't matter unless you get a majority of teams to dissolve the conference. The ACC will block other teams from leaving as well won't they? Why wouldn't they?

No team is "blocked" from leaving. It is financially difficult, but it isn't "blocked".

If an ACC team leaves the conference to join the Big10 in 2025, they will have to either purchase 11 years worth of media rights, or lose out on 11 years of media revenue. Joining the Big10 now even with media rights, the team would not receive a full payout, because the media contract is already in place until 2030. If the team leaves in 2030 there are only six years of media rights to lose out on or purchase. The Big10 could include that team in the negotiations for the next media contract and either get a larger payout immediately (if rights are purchased back) or starting in 2036 when the rights revert back to the team.

Think of purchasing a new car on a loan. If you roll negative equity into the loan and add an extended warranty to the loan you can easily be $15k under on the loan as soon as you drive off of the lot. If you see a better car on your way home, you might want to purchase it. To purchase it now, you would have to sell your car, cover the $15k, and come up with a down payment on the other car. If you wait 4 years into your 5 year car loan, you could sell your car and have enough money from the sale to make a downpayment on a new car. That is similar to the issue with leaving the ACC now VS leaving the ACC in 6-7 years. It will be much less expensive to leave in 6 years than it is now. It has nothing to do with what the ACC will do or will not do. It has to do with the fact that as the GOR ages out, it becomes more and more economically feasible to get around it.

 

[bobongo]

The problem is, they can't leave the conference. The GOR is a hostage document. If the ACC attempts to refuse the ability to buy back rights then the ACC bylaws have been superseded. Therefore Jim Philips essentially owns one of the largest Athletic Departments in the country for 12 years.

Yes, they may leave the conference and leave their media rights behind, as per the contract. As to whether the GOR is a "hostage document" or whatever you want to call it, FSU signed it and is therefore bound by it. What's not to understand?

 

[WreckinGT]

Obviously, not everyone. Here's an example of your hyperbole

The truth is, I don't think a single person here believes FSU will be here in 2035. There has been alot of back and forth on the verbiage in the complaints and motions. One side has argued tooth and nail that the GOR is iron clad and that the ACC will not entertain the idea of selling media rights back to FSU, yet I don't think any of these people would put a substantial wager on FSU still being here for the duration of the GOR. Most of the debates here are not in good faith.

 

[RonJohn]

Yes, they may leave the conference and leave their media rights behind, as per the contract. As to whether the GOR is a "hostage document" or whatever you want to call it, FSU signed it and is therefore bound by it. What's not to understand?

Plus the FSU BOT said when signing the document that it was great because it would make it economically difficult for any team to leave the conference. They knew that. They understood that. They signed it because that is exactly what they wanted.

 

[cpf2001]

I think in a civil contract dispute like this, FSU *can* do a lot of things here, even those that the contract says they can't, and the most pertinent question is "what would a court enforce in a suit about breach of contract?"

For instance, I don't think the ACC can actually refuse to take money in exchange for voiding the GOR. I don't think a court would be willing to use police force to let them get away with it. Even in the extreme case that FSU said "were just going to ignore the ACC contracts completely" and the Big 10 went along and sent in their own TV crews for the games, is it likely that a court would say "we're going to send the police to FSU home games to make sure they let the ACC crews broadcast their games and prevent the Big 10 crew from broadcasting the game"? Or would a court be much more likely to say "no, we're going to rule against you and enforce hundreds of millions in damages"? I've seen a fair number of multi-million contracts get renegotiated because one party decided to play hardball and stop paying, I haven't seen them turn into police actions.

Does anyone have examples of where a court in a similar situation would rule to enforce performance of a contract like that vs just awarding $$$$ for breaking the contract?

 

[WreckinGT]

Yes, they may leave the conference and leave their media rights behind, as per the contract. As to whether the GOR is a "hostage document" or whatever you want to call it, FSU signed it and is therefore bound by it. What's not to understand?

You guys don't seem to understand that leaving without your media rights is not possible. Might as well claim that leaving a the top floor of a burning building is possible because you can jump out of the window.