Can't Help It 2013 VT Midline Review

Longestday

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Feel free not to click if your are tired of the midline. I am just seeing more as I re-watch now that I have more information.

OK, this is 2 midlines ran in a row against VT 2013.

Note the DT goes outside both times. The first is a give to Sims. The second is a keep.

VT's DT's are scary big and scary good! Double teams did not even stop them.


 

wingsrlevel

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I think in the second play where Vad keeps the ball if he gives to the BB it's a TD. JMO though, by no means an expert.
 

AE 87

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I think Vad made the wrong read on the first one. He corrects it on the second but perhaps doesn't get the footwork right to loop around the DT. The DT who was taking the dive was able to switch to the QB after the mesh and still get a hand on him. That's what it looks like to me. Maybe Vad could have ridden the mesh an extra beat?
 

dressedcheeseside

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So what, exactly, is the qb looking for from the DT? Is it which gap he shoots or the angle of his shoulders or what? In the first clip, the DT clearly shoots the B gap yet still makes the tackle on the Bback. Should the LG have "scraped" him first, before heading to the LB?
 

AE 87

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So what, exactly, is the qb looking for from the DT? Is it which gap he shoots or the angle of his shoulders or what? In the first clip, the DT clearly shoots the B gap yet still makes the tackle on the Bback. Should the LG have "scraped" him first, before heading to the LB?

The LG leaves the DT unblocked as the handoff key (HOK). The QB gives to BB unless the HOK is taking the dive. That's the mesh read, just QB.

The presnap read of DT in 1tech is different imo. Regardless of presnap, the DT getting washed out of the Agap by OG would signal QB keep.

jmo
 

dressedcheeseside

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The QB gives to BB unless the HOK is taking the dive.
This is the part I'm unsure of. How does the qb "know" the DT is taking the dive? In the first clip, the DT tackles the dive, so is it a bad read, or is the DT taking the qb at the start of the play, then switches to the dive once he realizes the handoff is made? If the DT can make the play regardless of who has the ball, what's the point of reading the guy in the first place?
 

AE 87

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This is the part I'm unsure of. How does the qb "know" the DT is taking the dive? In the first clip, the DT tackles the dive, so is it a bad read, or is the DT taking the qb at the start of the play, then switches to the dive once he realizes the handoff is made? If the DT can make the play regardless of who has the ball, what's the point of reading the guy in the first place?

I meant to give my opinion on these questions in my first post above.
 

forensicbuzz

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In the first play, the DT slow played the play, waiting on the outcome of the mesh before attacking the ball. He only moved on the ball after he saw Sims had it. In the second play, he moves more quickly, attacking Sims immediately and then sliding off when he saw Vad still had the ball. He then lunged at Vad, but wasn't able to bring him down with an arm-tackle from the ground.

The way they were defending that play and the strength of the DT, I don't think the OG scraping the DT would have been enough to spring the BBack. If the OG stays home and blocks the DT and the play is a true QB Keeper (where the BBack moves to the second level for blocking), that could be a successful play. The only reason the second play was successful was because the DT was not as patient as he was in the first play. If he would have held for another split second, he would have seen the fake mesh and been in better position to stop Vad.
 

dressedcheeseside

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In the first play, the DT slow played the play, waiting on the outcome of the mesh before attacking the ball. He only moved on the ball after he saw Sims had it. In the second play, he moves more quickly, attacking Sims immediately and then sliding off when he saw Vad still had the ball. He then lunged at Vad, but wasn't able to bring him down with an arm-tackle from the ground.
This is an issue of concern because non-committal DL's is what we want. We should have the spacing and speed of execution to overcome a DL that doesn't commit right away. Maybe our Bback is too far from the LOS or not quick enough to the mesh point, I dunno. Maybe we're too close in our line splits? What else can we do to exploit a "slow play" tactic such as this?
 

forensicbuzz

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Also, with the SS blitz on the first play, if Vad had kept the ball, he could have been hit from behind and possibly stripped of the ball. #17, was that Fuller? In the first play Shaq misses the stunting safety, giving him a direct line to Vad. In the second play, he correctly reads the stunt and slows 17 up enough to spring Vad.
 

dressedcheeseside

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Also, with the SS blitz on the first play, if Vad had kept the ball, he could have been hit from behind and possibly stripped of the ball. #17, was that Fuller? In the first play Shaq misses the stunting safety, giving him a direct line to Vad. In the second play, he correctly reads the stunt and slows 17 up enough to spring Vad.
I saw that, too. Maybe the DT knowing there's safety blitz taking Vad has confidence to take the dive but not show his hand right after the snap. It just goes to show that what works on paper doesn't always work on the field. The difference is in the actual skill of the guys on the field. Things tend to work as written against lesser foes... not so much against better ones.
 

33jacket

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What does the qb look for to decide if the DT is taking the give or the keep? I've heard angle of the shoulders before, but not sure.

The first play is a called dive. It is not midline. It's midline motion with no read. It's a straight up a gap called dive. I can tell by the mask position. The second is totally an option based on the dt reaction from the called dive. Paul was trying to get a read on how to play him and not block or block the 3tech and is why he called the first play.

First read is the d front pre snap. This is a check at the line based on 0tech 1tech etc alignment on the play side dt read.

Midline traditional is a fast hard A Gap attack with a read on the dt.

If the dt is in a 1 tech in the play side a gap the guard will chip him but not block him. The qb reads live what is going on. Most times they take the bb which is why the midline is often a qb carry. On a 3 tech read he may be totally unblocked and u use speed of play and angles to get to the hole faster. This is why Paul likes under center since it hits quicker. But the read is so quick. You are taught inside step pull straight step give.
 

forensicbuzz

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Making sure I understand the terminology.

0-Technique: Lined up directly on center
1-Technique: Lined up in A-Gap
3-Technique: Lined up in B-Gap
5-Technique: Lined up outside shoulder of OT

Correct or incorrect.
 

awbuzz

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...The second is totally an option based on the dt reaction from the called dive. Paul was trying to get a read on how to play him and not block or block the 3tech and is why he called the first play.
Proof that coach is using previous plays to set up future, not always next, play. Thanks 33 for the insight.
 
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