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Bill of Rights -2A

Discussion in 'The Swarm Lounge' started by Whiskey_Clear, Mar 19, 2018.

  1. AE 87

    AE 87 Helluva Engineer

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    They might react to a gun with a gun. You come out with a spinning chainsaw and wearing a Jason mask, then they're going to run.
     
    Nook Su Kow and forensicbuzz like this.
  2. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Helluva Engineer

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    Do you even know how projectiles work? How barriers affect trajectory?

    They didn’t come through her bedroom door. They came through the front door. Are you gonna load the shotgun with slugs, buckshot, or birdshot?

    If you haven’t thought about these things you haven’t really honestly thought about any of this realistically.
     
  3. forensicbuzz

    forensicbuzz Helluva Engineer

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    Hell, just saw the damn thing off and sit waiting with double aught buck shot. They won't come back.

    Better yet, just grab the Husqvarna!
     
  4. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Helluva Engineer

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    Gotcha. I thought at first you might be serious but I see now that you are simply being humerous.
     
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  5. forensicbuzz

    forensicbuzz Helluva Engineer

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    Don't know enough about weapons or tactics to opine seriously. I do believe in the hands of a properly trained person, with the correct mental state, a semi-automatic weapon is an appropriate deterrent. However, I think for most people, the weapon is more dangerous to them than their assailants. It that case, I think the more noise you make, the better. That's why the shotgun came to my mind. But, yes, to your point, I was not being serious about the choice of weapon to use in home defense.
     
  6. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Helluva Engineer

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    Fair enough. I disagree with most of your points though after your second sentence. All guns make loud bangs when discharged. Choosing the loudest bang as your primary determinant in weapons choice.... I would not advocate that philosophy.
     
  7. forensicbuzz

    forensicbuzz Helluva Engineer

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    I grew up with loaded shotguns and rifles leaning in the corner at my grandparents' farm (shotguns for the foxes and raccoons and the 30-06 for coyotes). They had a .32 semi-automatic pistol and an 8-shot .22 long rifle revolver. If someone were coming into my house, I'd pick up the 12 gauge pump or the 20 gauge semi before I picked up the 30-06, 30-30, the .32 or the .22 revolver. To me the "boom" of the shotgun is much more intimidating than the "bang" of either rifle or hand gun, and makes a hell of a lot more noise. I guess if you have a heavy .357 that's going to make a lot of noise too, but that's an unwieldy gun to shoot.

    And I do seriously believe than most gun owners that have a weapon only for home protection are under-trained, poorly prepared, and ill-equipped to handle said weapons in such an event. But this is just an opinion based on personal experience and no data.
     
  8. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Helluva Engineer

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    I’m not saying a shotgun is worthless for home defense. It isn’t at all and can be very effective in the hands of someone who knows how to employ it effectively. But the report shouldn’t be a leading priority in choice making imo.

    Shotguns loaded with your preference of buckshot for instance shoot a pellet “pattern” that spreads with distance. That makes precision shots more difficult. And more dangerous in the hands of someone with little training in its use. For instance, needing to shoot an armed home intruder in a hallway leading to a loved ones bedroom. Or needing to shoot an intruder that has grabbed a loved one, or in close proximity/ assaulting a loved one etc. That’s not a shot you want to take with a shotgun loaded with buckshot imo. Not if other options are available.

    I don’t get the notion that a gun in the home is more dangerous to the owner than to a potential assailant. Only if the owner is extremely careless or negligent with it. Or if the owner finds themself incapable of taking the life of an assailant in such scenario who would then obtain it from the owner to then use against them. I don’t advise people who say they couldn’t take a life in that situation to arm themselves.
     
  9. LibertyTurns

    LibertyTurns Helluva Engineer

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    There are 2 basic questions you should ask yourself if you’re in regular fear for basic safety in your own home or neighborhood:

    Why am I living in an area where I need to be armed to the teeth to survive? Where is law enforcement that’s tolerating the anarchy?

    I know anything can happen anywhere on any day, but I don’t live in a gated compound nor do I feel compelled to have a fully loaded semi-automatic at my side at all times for personal protection either. If I don’t have time to go get my weapon, load it and fend off a random intruder I’m pretty much screwed because I’m never living in an area where I expect to have a gang of thugs kick in my door nor would I prepare myself for such a low probability event.
     
  10. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Helluva Engineer

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    And you are free to make these choices for yourself. You are not free to make these choices for others.

    That lady from Florida visiting Canada in the Utube video I linked felt much as you do. I’d argue her outcome was incredibly fortunate.

    Is there a difference in your mind between living in regular fear of violence and being regularly prepared for that eventuality.
     
  11. LibertyTurns

    LibertyTurns Helluva Engineer

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    That’s why I posed it as a question. Maybe you have a sick family member to attend to, maybe you get a thrill out of being in constant danger?

    If you accept the conditions, you arm yourself appropriately. Personally, if I need a machine gun to protect myself I had better be getting hazardous duty pay. When I’m at home a smaller weapon within the confines of my house is where my cut off point is.
     
  12. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Helluva Engineer

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    I’m not sure I’m getting your point unless you are simply stating you have decided to disregard preparation for facing possible violence.

    And I think you asked two separate questions but I thought you were trying to make a rhetorical statement rather than making a true query. But I will now take those questions as queries requesting a response instead.

    #1. You earlier admitted bad things can happen anywhere. I agree with you. It’s incumbent upon the individual to decide how and whether to prepare for “something bad”. If that individual lives in an area they feel has higher rates of violent crime than they like, I’d suggest they prepare for that eventuality or explore moving their residence elsewhere.

    #2. Law enforcement (LE) may be answering other calls to 911 that came in prior to your own emergency. What is the typical LE response time where you live? That’s a good thing to know and think about when evaluating your decisions regarding self defense. Also consider those times are averages and actual response times vary. And do you trust whatever random LE that does arrive, when they finally get there, to protect yourself or your loved ones to the degree you could or would? Keep in mind tactical decisions are made by LE based on the situations they face upon arrival. Those decisions may or may not align with a victim’s desires.
     
  13. LibertyTurns

    LibertyTurns Helluva Engineer

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    2,903
    I will retreat from this back and forth until I can come up with something coherent. I’m obviously shooting blanks and wedging this in between work is not working. Sorry for wasting your time.
     
  14. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Helluva Engineer

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    Be very wary of these proposed red flag laws. They are a threat to our due process rights.

     
  15. Milwaukee

    Milwaukee Helluva Engineer

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    Toronto shooter is Faisal Hussein.
     
  16. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Helluva Engineer

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    So does “deeply disturbed” = radical Islamist in Toronto? I don’t want to stereotype off a name tho....,,,:whistle:
     
  17. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    In a statement released to various media outlets, Hussain's family expressed their "deepest condolences" to the victims and their families for what they called "our son's horrific actions".

    They said their son suffered from serious mental health challenges and had struggled with untreatable psychosis and depression most of his life.


    I could make a defensible argument that radical islamic terrorism was a serious mental illness too, based on what they believe. However, it could be any number of things. I don't know if he was an immigrant, but immigrants who have trouble assimilating often suffer from these same sorts of violent tendencies as well.

    I'll continue to stick to evil as the cause. I don't care if you're Muslim, Christian, atheist, rich, poor - it is never okay to slaughter people in cold blood. No normal person would ever do such a thing.
     
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  18. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Helluva Engineer

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  19. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Helluva Engineer

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    Socialism is a mental disorder. Can we save America from this global disease?
     
  20. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Helluva Engineer

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    Mixed feelings about this one but overall against. Yes I’m pro 2A. But I also think prison sentences are too lenient for major felonies. Add in lenient parole decisions and we end up with a lot of bad people on the street. I also think with the right to keep and bear arms comes the responsibility to do so safely and civically.

    Losing 2A for committing a violent felony is a deterrent for committing those crimes and a good one.
     

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