Are we getting our $$$ worth out of Danny Borrell?

JacketBuzz

Georgia Tech Fan
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1
Danny is among the highest paid assistants in the college game. For whatever reason, he hasn’t been able to elevate our arms to even a mediocre level.

Really surprising.
 

THWG

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Danny is among the highest paid assistants in the college game. For whatever reason, he hasn’t been able to elevate our arms to even a mediocre level.

Really surprising.
Well, this was really just his second year and it was his first year with all of the technology in place, so I'm not going to pass judgment yet. Next year will tell me all I need to know.
 

JacketOff

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Obviously not lol.

I think his pedigree has helped with recruiting, but the on field results are worse than they’ve ever been. As freshmen Roedig and Bartnicki showed a lot of promise, and competed at a high level against ACC competition and in the postseason. They’ve become complete non factors as seniors.

Maxwell has electric stuff, but he is no more consistent now as a junior than he was as a freshman in 2020.

Chance Huff for the most part has been worse as a Junior and Senior than he was as a freshman at Vandy.

Grissom didn’t really show any improvement over the year. His numbers are extremely similar to where they were last year.

Mannelly didn’t really improve at all from when he came in 2018. 3 years to work with DBo and really nothing changed except he gained some velocity.

There’s too much good arm talent on these, and now there’s too many resources to utilize to put out results like we saw this year
 

4shotB

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There’s too much good arm talent on these, and now there’s too many resources to utilize to put out results like we saw this year
I am just spitballing here as I have no real knowledge or insight on the program...but I wonder if there may be too much emphasis on development and mechanics vs. results. An analogy that may be similar to this is golf....the object is to get the ball in the hole with as few strokes as possible. That's it. Although many go down the rabbit hole of chasing a "perfect" golf swing.

Neither Arnie in a previous era or Jim Furyk (David Feherty once described his swing as looking like "an octupus falling out of a tree") as a more recent example had "good" golf swings according to the "experts"and I wonder if there aren't a lot of modern golf coaches who would not want them to change their swings had these two been under their tutelage. Palmer, of course, is an all-time great and Furyk may end up in the Golf HOF one day. Both of these guys succeeded without classic technique although they were able to repeat their swings which is ultimately the key to achieving success in the sport.

It may be possible to do so (overhaul a swing) in the long run. But, in the short run, almost all golfers regress while correcting (or attempting to correct) mechanics. They cannot repeat their swings as they get stuck between old habits and new. A college baseball career lasts 2-5 years. So, (assuming similarities between the two sports here) there isn't much time to see the fruits of their labor while tinkering with the structure of their pitching mechanics. And it begs the question, is it really worth more than winning games in the short run?

Although to be fair to this guy, we have had similar issues prior to his arrival as I understand things..
 

GTJon

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There's clearly difficulty in him switching from the macro view he had with the Yankees where long term outcomes were the focus to the micro, game by game, pitch by pitch view that he needs where it's the current game outcome that is the primary focus.

Like everyone else, I certainly don't have the magic answer on how to fix things. With every pitcher on this staff, you can think of an inning or outing where they just dominated and looked like one of "the answers" to out pitching woes. And then the very next inning or game, just got bombed. He's got to figure out a way to ramp up that consistency for the staff.

I don't have a problem with giving him one more year, but with a lot of returning veteran arms next year, it has to be different or that's it. It is concerning that people like Bartnicki, Roedig, Mannelly were not able to improve at all over the course of their career and really regressed, even with loads of pure talent.
 

4shotB

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. With every pitcher on this staff, you can think of an inning or outing where they just dominated and looked like one of "the answers" to out pitching woes. And then the very next inning or game, just got bombed. He's got to figure out a way to ramp up that consistency for the staff.

This type of inconsistency is what lead me to the golf analogy where players get caught in the middle of their old swing and new. They (golfers) start thinking vs. trusting their swings. When that (indecisiveness) happens results plummet. One of the things caddies frequently say to a player when making a club selection is to "commit" to the decision. If you are thinking about your club choice while attempting to hit a golf shot results are oftentimes less than satisfactory.
 

gtrower

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Not yet, that’s for damn sure. I don’t think it’s time to cut bait yet. But I also don’t think it was time for extension either. The new pitching facilities aren’t gonna mean much when we get a reputation for not being able to develop arm talent.
 

augustabuzz

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I am just spitballing here as I have no real knowledge or insight on the program...but I wonder if there may be too much emphasis on development and mechanics vs. results. An analogy that may be similar to this is golf....the object is to get the ball in the hole with as few strokes as possible. That's it. Although many go down the rabbit hole of chasing a "perfect" golf swing.

Neither Arnie in a previous era or Jim Furyk (David Feherty once described his swing as looking like "an octupus falling out of a tree") as a more recent example had "good" golf swings according to the "experts"and I wonder if there aren't a lot of modern golf coaches who would not want them to change their swings had these two been under their tutelage. Palmer, of course, is an all-time great and Furyk may end up in the Golf HOF one day. Both of these guys succeeded without classic technique although they were able to repeat their swings which is ultimately the key to achieving success in the sport.

It may be possible to do so (overhaul a swing) in the long run. But, in the short run, almost all golfers regress while correcting (or attempting to correct) mechanics. They cannot repeat their swings as they get stuck between old habits and new. A college baseball career lasts 2-5 years. So, (assuming similarities between the two sports here) there isn't much time to see the fruits of their labor while tinkering with the structure of their pitching mechanics. And it begs the question, is it really worth more than winning games in the short run?

Although to be fair to this guy, we have had similar issues prior to his arrival as I understand things..
I get what you're saying, but Arnie and Furyk were excellent at impact.
 

4shotB

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I get what you're saying, but Arnie and Furyk were excellent at impact.
I guess I didn't speak with much clarity...the only thing that truly matters is getting the club in the right spot at the moment of impact. How you achieve that isn't really all that important. But that you get it there in the right spot consisently IS crucial. Yes, Freddie Couples and Ernie Els have the swings you admire. But I would be happy to be Furyk and have people scoff at my swing. :)
 

GTRambler

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Well, way back when I played small college baseball (mid- to late 1960s), our coaches did not use electronic devices to measure spin rates or rpms of pitched balls, and use computer-enhanced graphics to analyze a pitcher’s mechanics, etc. A pitcher was either good or he wasn’t.

That was around 60 years ago … LOL

I have no earthy idea what all they are doing now, in today’s data-driven computerized analytics age. But the technology is now seeping down from the MLB level to the Division 1 college level.

So, I say we give ‘ol Borrell at least a minimum of three more years to see how things go — especially with young pitchers (kids just out of high school) who are now being taught all of this advanced-level stuff for the first time.
 

techdad02

Georgia Tech Fan
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From the AJC
”But, improving control of his assortment of pitches (particularly his slider) and simply learning how to think his way through at-bats, innings and games, Medich earned more and more opportunities. Borrell has been a trusted resource.

"His wealth of pitching knowledge is just so vast," Medich said. "Just being able to ask the questions, and he always has an answer for whatever it may be that I'm looking for."
 

CINCYMETJACKET

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There's clearly difficulty in him switching from the macro view he had with the Yankees where long term outcomes were the focus to the micro, game by game, pitch by pitch view that he needs where it's the current game outcome that is the primary focus.

Like everyone else, I certainly don't have the magic answer on how to fix things. With every pitcher on this staff, you can think of an inning or outing where they just dominated and looked like one of "the answers" to out pitching woes. And then the very next inning or game, just got bombed. He's got to figure out a way to ramp up that consistency for the staff.

I don't have a problem with giving him one more year, but with a lot of returning veteran arms next year, it has to be different or that's it. It is concerning that people like Bartnicki, Roedig, Mannelly were not able to improve at all over the course of their career and really regressed, even with loads of pure talent.
Roedig had arm problems, shoulder I believe. Mannelly as well, TJ surgery I thought, but the GT site just says battled injuries all season in 2019 and didn't make an appearance in the COVID shortened 2020 season. Bartnicki was never able to get things going this year. Haven't heard about an injury, but wouldn't surprise me. Add to that the loss of development time during 2020 and it's no wonder our pitching had issues. Pitching was down across all of college baseball this year, as evidenced by some of the team records set for HR, high averages, NCAA regional scores etc. Coach Borrell has a lot of his own freshmen recruits coming back next year (with the transfer portal, I hope they're coming back...) that showed a lot of promise, but also inconsistency this year. Especially when ACC play started. We'll see what next year holds.
 

randerto

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The AJC interview w/CDH spelled this out pretty well IMO. CDB has experience in teaching kids how to improve their velocity, spin rates, mechanics, etc... But he has seemingly little experience teaching pitchers how to compete and win inclusive of emphasizing pitch calling during games to exploit hitters weaknesses and importance of pitch location. Pitch location should be emphasized and rewarded above metrics like spin rates and velocity to develop a stronger, winning pitching staff...
 

GT33

Jolly Good Fellow
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331
I'm torn on Borrell. Maybe he's just what we need or maybe what we needed is what LSU did? Perhaps we had the right idea, but our execution was off.

 

Quietman6520

Georgia Tech Fan
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1
Danny is among the highest paid assistants in the college game. For whatever reason, he hasn’t been able to elevate our arms to even a mediocre level.

Really surprising.
Former Tech alumni here. Technology can't help throw strikes or throw breaking ball strikes in fastball situations. I brought my son to tech 2 summers ago for Danny to view. His spin rates weren't good enough for Tech. He was just names SC 4A state pitcher of the year. All he does is win games. 64IP 108ks 21bb 1.16era this year. He's 6'7 230 and throws 88-91 and can touch 93. Since I didn't play in the big leagues he doesn't get the looks he deserves. I did however have a huge part in winning 2 acc titles.
 

rodandanga

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Former Tech alumni here. Technology can't help throw strikes or throw breaking ball strikes in fastball situations. I brought my son to tech 2 summers ago for Danny to view. His spin rates weren't good enough for Tech. He was just names SC 4A state pitcher of the year. All he does is win games. 64IP 108ks 21bb 1.16era this year. He's 6'7 230 and throws 88-91 and can touch 93. Since I didn't play in the big leagues he doesn't get the looks he deserves. I did however have a huge part in winning 2 acc titles.
With that kind of size, he seems right up Hall's alley. He as always had a strange love of really tall pitchers.

I was talking with some other Tech grads about if Borrell is too focused on the analytics and that was why we struggled last year.
 
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