ACC POY - Who is it?

ACC POY

  • Moses Wright

    Votes: 128 79.0%
  • Jose Alvarado

    Votes: 14 8.6%
  • Matthew Hurt

    Votes: 5 3.1%
  • Justin Champagnie

    Votes: 7 4.3%
  • Carlik Jones

    Votes: 7 4.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 1 0.6%

  • Total voters
    162
  • Poll closed .

CuseJacket

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There was a Packer & Durham clip dedicated to ACC POY candidates during halftime of the 'Cuse/Clemson game yesterday.

The candidates were:
  • Matthew Hurt
  • Carlik Jones
  • Justin Champagnie
  • Moses Wright
Packer said Champagnie. Wes didn't offer an opinion. The color commentator for the 'Cuse/Clemson game said Jones.

Packer seemed to acknowledge that Moses was most intriguing contender, in large part because he hasn't been part of the discussion all year, and also in part because of how significant his performance has been the last several weeks.
 

SnidelyWhiplash

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15,135
I voted other. This was my 'present' vote, not knowing who to vote for, which is gutless and cowardly.

In my defense, I went through each players game by game stats. Most had an incredible level of consistency, like scoring in double figures every single game or almost every game. And so on. Honestly not sure how the votes will come down - could be a complete scattershot.

2 of the players are on teams that are losers. I wonder how that will factor in. Typically players who excel on winning teams get more credit. Like how rare it is for a Heisman finalist in football to be on a losing team.
 

JacketRacket

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
396
There was a Packer & Durham clip dedicated to ACC POY candidates during halftime of the 'Cuse/Clemson game yesterday.

The candidates were:
  • Matthew Hurt
  • Carlik Jones
  • Justin Champagnie
  • Moses Wright
Packer said Champagnie. Wes didn't offer an opinion. The color commentator for the 'Cuse/Clemson game said Jones.

Packer seemed to acknowledge that Moses was most intriguing contender, in large part because he hasn't been part of the discussion all year, and also in part because of how significant his performance has been the last several weeks.
Stat breakdowns for each of the players per game (leader highlighted in bold for each category):


NameFG%PointsReboundsAssistsBlocksSteals
Moses Wright54.2%188.32.31.71.5
Matthew Hurt57.1%18.96.21.40.70.8
Justin Champagnie49.6%18.711.51.61.21.2
Carlik Jones42.1%17.65.24.50.11.5
 

ramblinjacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
691
Stat breakdowns for each of the players per game (leader highlighted in bold for each category):


NameFG%PointsReboundsAssistsBlocksSteals
Moses Wright54.2%188.32.31.71.5
Matthew Hurt57.1%18.96.21.40.70.8
Justin Champagnie49.6%18.711.51.61.21.2
Carlik Jones42.1%17.65.24.50.11.5
If you sum the rows you get:
NameTotal
Moses Wright68.00
Matthew Hurt66.20
Justin Champagnie65.10
Carlik Jones53.40

So seems like a no brainer to me.
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
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4,148
My take is that Hurt is the most talented scorer in the conference by a good margin but doesn't impact the game enough in other areas compared to the others.

Champagnie has had a great year, is a great all around player, but his team has struggled so much and his offense while still working isn't nearly as efficient as he has been under 50% shooting in 6 of their last 8 games, and one of the games he was above it he only took 6 shots. To compare, Moses has been under 50% just 7 times all year. Overall though I just think the team struggles hurts him too much considering that he doesn't really pull away from the pact otherwise.

Jones is probably my second pick. Great all around player and does just about everything. Scores, assists, rebounds, defends. To me though two things hold him back. The first is the number of games played. I know that is out of his control, but if a player had a great year but missed significant time to injury, I feel it would be held against him. Now that alone isn't what does it for me. What does it for me is his fg%. He's a guard so his % isn't expected to be as high but even so 42% is strikingly mediocre. His 1.19 points per shot is significantly behind the other 3 (moses and champagnie are pretty much even at 1.35 and Hurt is at 1.52). and also significantly behind most of the top 20 scorers. Only Buddy Boeheim, Jay Heath, and Prentiss Hub are below him while the majority are 1.3 or higher. Now, that doesn't mean he isn't a great player. He is. But we're looking for things to separate the men from the prophets.

So that leaves Moses. Top 5 or nearly so in points, rebs, steals, and blocks. His %s are good at 54 overall and 39 from 3 (yeah suck on that one Liberty [I believe he was the one making big deals every time Moses took a 3}) He averages 2.3 assists per game is a respectable number for a big, especially since he is at 1.55 ATO. About the only thing that really comes close to a black mark is his 67% FT shooting and even that is fringe top 25 so not overly bad. I think that combined with his recent surge to lead GT to an above predicted result, along with having by far the best story of the 3 (0 star recruit to ACC PoY). Moses should win it.
 

CuseJacket

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Stat breakdowns for each of the players per game (leader highlighted in bold for each category):


NameFG%PointsReboundsAssistsBlocksSteals
Moses Wright54.2%188.32.31.71.5
Matthew Hurt57.1%18.96.21.40.70.8
Justin Champagnie49.6%18.711.51.61.21.2
Carlik Jones42.1%17.65.24.50.11.5
Jose Alvarado51.0%15.73.54.10.02.8
FIFY ;)

Yea, I know Jose's last couple of weeks haven't been as stellar, but a month ago we would have had him on the same pedestal as Moses now.

And despite the last couple of weeks, a season (so far) at 51% for a guard is ridiculous. 40.8% from three is fantastic. The steals alone should get him DPOY. I still want to see him get 1st Team All-ACC respect.
 

gt24

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
252
My take is that Hurt is the most talented scorer in the conference by a good margin but doesn't impact the game enough in other areas compared to the others.

Champagnie has had a great year, is a great all around player, but his team has struggled so much and his offense while still working isn't nearly as efficient as he has been under 50% shooting in 6 of their last 8 games, and one of the games he was above it he only took 6 shots. To compare, Moses has been under 50% just 7 times all year. Overall though I just think the team struggles hurts him too much considering that he doesn't really pull away from the pact otherwise.

Jones is probably my second pick. Great all around player and does just about everything. Scores, assists, rebounds, defends. To me though two things hold him back. The first is the number of games played. I know that is out of his control, but if a player had a great year but missed significant time to injury, I feel it would be held against him. Now that alone isn't what does it for me. What does it for me is his fg%. He's a guard so his % isn't expected to be as high but even so 42% is strikingly mediocre. His 1.19 points per shot is significantly behind the other 3 (moses and champagnie are pretty much even at 1.35 and Hurt is at 1.52). and also significantly behind most of the top 20 scorers. Only Buddy Boeheim, Jay Heath, and Prentiss Hub are below him while the majority are 1.3 or higher. Now, that doesn't mean he isn't a great player. He is. But we're looking for things to separate the men from the prophets.

So that leaves Moses. Top 5 or nearly so in points, rebs, steals, and blocks. His %s are good at 54 overall and 39 from 3 (yeah suck on that one Liberty [I believe he was the one making big deals every time Moses took a 3}) He averages 2.3 assists per game is a respectable number for a big, especially since he is at 1.55 ATO. About the only thing that really comes close to a black mark is his 67% FT shooting and even that is fringe top 25 so not overly bad. I think that combined with his recent surge to lead GT to an above predicted result, along with having by far the best story of the 3 (0 star recruit to ACC PoY). Moses should win it.
this is a very nice summary. the lack of a clear, dominant pick or picks aligns with the teams overall. a lot of strong players and teams this year in the ACC, but none dominant. seems like if a player is not utterly dominant, then his team's record becomes more of a factor. that leaves moses and jones. both great back stories on how they got to this point. this award is voted on and decided by 15 coaches and 60 media members? if that's the case, the "narrative" for much of the year has been jones. and when the decision is so gray, easy to see a bunch of couch potato writers/media analysts following the herd. the flip side of that is, if there is a surge of media coverage, banter, enthusiasm for moses in the final few weeks, maybe more of them vote for moses. seems like maybe this is a year in which performance during the ACCT decides the vote?

MOSES!
 

GTRanj2

Helluva Engineer
Messages
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...
Jones is probably my second pick.... His 1.19 points per shot is significantly behind the other 3 (moses and champagnie are pretty much even at 1.35 and Hurt is at 1.52). and also significantly behind most of the top 20 scorers. Only Buddy Boeheim, Jay Heath, and Prentiss Hub are below him while the majority are 1.3 or higher. Now, that doesn't mean he isn't a great player. He is. But we're looking for things to separate the men from the prophets.
...
Excellent post.
The bolded part is especially true because this takes shots away from the rest of your team and is a possible detriment (if your team is not a good offensive rebounding team). This ultimately lowers the offensive efficiency and potential of your whole team.

That's what's been great about Moses. He does it all like Jones, but is much more efficient.
 

Buzztheirazz

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If we had taken care of the games we should have and finished stronger when we had leads against Duke/UVA Moses would take it easily. The teams early piss poor performance and not getting ranked is responsible for the lack of coverage. This hurts for personal honors.

but...maybe we will slide under peoples radars in the tourney.
 

Buzztheirazz

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If we had taken care of the games we should have and finished stronger when we had leads against Duke/UVA Moses would take it easily. The teams early piss poor performance and not getting ranked is responsible for the lack of coverage. This hurts for personal honors.
 

SnidelyWhiplash

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If we had taken care of the games we should have and finished stronger when we had leads against Duke/UVA Moses would take it easily. The teams early piss poor performance and not getting ranked is responsible for the lack of coverage. This hurts for personal honors.

but...maybe we will slide under peoples radars in the tourney.

Totally correct.
 

SnidelyWhiplash

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If we had taken care of the games we should have and finished stronger when we had leads against Duke/UVA Moses would take it easily. The teams early piss poor performance and not getting ranked is responsible for the lack of coverage. This hurts for personal honors.

Totally incorrect.
 

gt24

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
252
If we had taken care of the games we should have and finished stronger when we had leads against Duke/UVA Moses would take it easily. The teams early piss poor performance and not getting ranked is responsible for the lack of coverage. This hurts for personal honors.

but...maybe we will slide under peoples radars in the tourney.
great point
 

lv20gt

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Messages
4,148
If we had taken care of the games we should have and finished stronger when we had leads against Duke/UVA Moses would take it easily. The teams early piss poor performance and not getting ranked is responsible for the lack of coverage. This hurts for personal honors.

I think this argument would hold more water if the competition was from FSU or UVA. But it's not. No way Hurt or Champagnie should have more positive press, and Jones is on a team that's played 4 games in the past month+. How is he building coverage when he isn't playing?
 

slugboy

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I think this argument would hold more water if the competition was from FSU or UVA. But it's not. No way Hurt or Champagnie should have more positive press, and Jones is on a team that's played 4 games in the past month+. How is he building coverage when he isn't playing?
If POY is an MVP-type award, then it’s not just stats—it’s hard to get an MVP on a losing team. Being the best player on the best team is one way to get it—and if you’re looking at FSU or UVA, they have some players that could be considered, but they aren’t on the list.
Carlik Jones from Louisville fits the mold—great player, great stats, on a team going to the postseason. Jones is their scoring leader. He’s only 33% from 3-point territory, which is lower than you want out of a guard. He’s not playing for a North Carolina or Virginia school, which hurts most of the POY candidates except Hurt.
Wright is a great player who has carried his team in games, with great stats, on a team probably going to the postseason. He has a lot of the same arguments for him as Jones—senior, showed up in big games—and some of the same arguments against (didn’t play for a tobacco road team).
Hurt has the advantage of playing for Duke and having a lot of points. He’s got the drawback of playing on a Duke team on the wrong side of the bubble. If I were a voter considering Hurt, I’d be watching the Duke UNC game on Saturday; it’s a must-win for Duke and Hurt would need to have a big big game to get my POY vote.
Champangie plays for Pitt, who can really only make the postseason if they’re the ACC automatic qualifier for winning the tournament. The team is currently falling apart (to my eyes, at least). Champagnie had big game opportunities, like against Georgia Tech, where a MVP type player puts the team on his back and pulls off a win. I haven’t watched too much of Pitt, but where are the big wins?
However, in a poll of the ACC sportswriters two weeks ago, Champagnie was the clear favorite. So, what do I know?
The voting for this kind of award is weird, because it’s mostly about who the voters have seen. That’s a reason why Duke and UVA and UNC and to some extent Louisville players are in good shape—people have watched those games. Not a lot of people see the Pitt games. People missed a lot of our games until recently.
I’m thinking Jones wins because of who the voters have probably watched. I voted for Moses for reasons that ought to be obvious around here. The Duke game should have helped him. (If we had blown them out, it would have helped more).
 
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