2022-23 Season
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FredJacket
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I realize this is an NBA player answering a question (not college baseball)... but his answer is a great response to the notion that if you don't win it all or get past some arbitrary "place" in any given season, you've "failed"
CTJacket
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Great answer. It's one of the things that bugs me about sports today, that if you don't win it all you've failed somehow. I was talking to a Penn State fan about it... they won 10 games and the Rose Bowl but there is an element of their fandom that thinks the season was a failure.
leatherneckjacket
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I was always told second place is first loser and I have always played with that mentality. Having said that, the idea that everyone fails unless they win the championship or named the best is one of the worst perspectives to have in sports or in life.
CTJacket
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Yes, me too. The older I get the more perspective I have, I think in the heat of the moment you give your all just like that. After it's over you reflect and try to figure out if you gained from it in any way or if there is a way to gain.
It's like 2014 football - great season and I don't see anything as a failure about it. Sometimes a 'coulda woulda' but that's about it. Same with the CWS seasons. Those are special.
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From my perspective, it's always the people with no skin in the game who have the binary perspective...you either win the championship or you failed. The people with skin in the game NEVER feel the same way. Sometimes the other guy is better. Sometimes he is not but you had a bad day. As Teddy Roosevelt said, and this may be the best quote of alltime imo....
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”
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Same here about getting older and a different perspective.
Mine is more from the cycling world where 80 may start and only one win. In cycling it is regularly the perception of how well you did relative to your talent as much as where you finished. How you did your job to support someone else. That's why podium (top 3) finishes are celebrated. There are fewer places to hide in cycling where teams can greatly contribute to a win but the individual needs to come through at the end.
For baseball, it's the same. If Old Dominion had our record against opponents, I'd say they were having a fabulous year since they would be relative to their talent.
FredJacket
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What do you think our NCAA tournament record (overall) is 2008-2022? The last 15 seasons
11 appearances (missed tournament 3 times & no tournament in 2020)
The record is 23-22.
Never went 0-2
Went 1-2 only one time.
That's 10 times Tech won 2 or 3 games in a regional.
In that same span, Ga Tech won 2 ACC tournaments.
2012 went 4-0 to win (8 team format)
2014 went 5-0 to win (10 team format)
It's just fluky that in all those seasons we couldn't get out of at least one regional. I know this may be "loser talk" but think about how crazy baseball is... & not once did "enough" go Ga Tech's way to get through in all that time.
11 appearances (missed tournament 3 times & no tournament in 2020)
The record is 23-22.
Never went 0-2
Went 1-2 only one time.
That's 10 times Tech won 2 or 3 games in a regional.
In that same span, Ga Tech won 2 ACC tournaments.
2012 went 4-0 to win (8 team format)
2014 went 5-0 to win (10 team format)
It's just fluky that in all those seasons we couldn't get out of at least one regional. I know this may be "loser talk" but think about how crazy baseball is... & not once did "enough" go Ga Tech's way to get through in all that time.
senoiajacket
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Similar in my mind to the Braves run in the 90s to 2000s. All those NL division titles, and WS appearances but only one WS win. Had arguably one of the best pitching staffs in the history of the game. Yet all it takes is one “Jim Leyritz” getting hot over a week to deny the Braves. Baseball is indeed a quirky game.
leatherneckjacket
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Maybe if the Braves got bounced in the first round of the playoffs in all of those years your analogy might work. Considering Braves won one and went to many other World Series, the comparison falls flat on tis face.
leatherneckjacket
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If Kansas, Kentucky, North Carolina or Duke went to 11 NCAA basketball tournaments in 14 years, went 11-11 in those 11 tourneys with 11 wins in the first round and 11 losses in the second round, and never made it to the Sweet 16 once in 14 years, what is the probability they would keep their Hall of Fame Head Coach and just blame it on merely an extended period of bad luck?
The implication that it is merely an astounding amount of ongoing bad luck that has prevented us from getting past the Regionals a single time since 2006 is completely silly and stupid (aka inane).
Considering we have been a 1 seed four times (a national seed twice) and a 2 seed six times in those 11 tournaments, that record is also a lot worse than I thought and much worse than what it should be.
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gtbeak
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I gotta agree with Leatherneck here. My quick back of the napkin calculation of "expected" record is that we should be 25-16 in those 11 trips***. We've never pulled off an upset, while consistently getting upset when we are the host.
*** Should go 3-0 as top 8 national seed, 3-1 as 1 seed but not top 8 seed, 2-2 as a 2 seed, and 1-2 as a 3 seed.
ETA: I don't have much of a problem with our ACC tourney performance. I think that has generally been fine.
LargeFO
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Way too large a sample size to be fluky.
FredJacket
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I am not suggesting it's "merely" bad luck.
I don't believe comparing basketball & baseball tournaments is a good exercise either. I don't believe CDH is close to a Dean Smith or Coack K of college baseball. He's also not a bad coach/leader of the program.
I find the numbers an outlier... the reasons (and fixes) to it is an outlier will be debated on & on. Fun... isn't it?
FredJacket
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I think you (& others) aren't seeing my point. You're right... the sample size is plenty large to assert we've underperformed. It's fluky we NEVER got through anyway.
gtbeak
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I agree that it seems like "luck" would have gotten us through one time. This has inspired me to try and see the details of those 11 NCAA performances. My gut says that we never have the pitching depth to even give us a chance to get lucky, but we shall see.
On another note, Virginia has fallen apart these last 3 weekends. Lost to Pitt, swept by Notre Dame, and beaten badly by Duke last night. Does anyone know if they have a bunch of injuries?
FredJacket
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Pitching is the bugaboo for sure. My opinion.
The reason I mentioned those ACC championships. Keep in mind those 4-0 & 5-0 runs occur one week before a regional against quality D1 competition.
gtbeak
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Here is what I found. Sorry for the long post, but I enjoyed (yes, really) looking back through this and though I would share:
2008 Athens Regional (2 seed) - We won first 2 games, but then lost badly to #8 national seed UGa twice. I remember thinking at the time that CDH cost us this one by panicking in game 7. UGa was playing their 5th game in 4 days and had no pitching left. We had a rested starter in Zack Von Tersch. ZVT struggled in the first, Hall pulled him, and all of a sudden we also had no pitching depth. We had the advantage and Danny gave that advantage away.
2009 Atlanta Regional (1 seed) - Lost to Southern Miss in the winner's bracket game, then beat them once but not twice trying to come back through. Tried to use Deck McGuire on just 2 days rest...didn't work.
2010 Atlanta Regional (Top 8 national seed) - Won first two games, but then allowed Bama to beat us twice. We had pitching depth, with three future MLB pitchers in McGuire, Jed Bradley, and Brandon Cumpton, plus a solid Mark Pope (don't think he ever pitched in MLB, could be wrong).
2011 Atlanta Regional (1 seed) - Lost the opener to Austin Peay 2-1, then battled through the loser's bracket but losing to Mississippi St in game six 7-3. Bats went cold.
2012 Gainesville Regional (2 seed) - Lost twice to #1 national seed Gators. No real chance here, just overmatched.
2013 Nashville Regional (2 seed) - Lost opener to 3 seed Illinois, battled through loser's bracket, beat Vandy once on a great performance from Heddinger, but lost game seven 7-1. Bats never got going all weekend, scoring just 21 runs in 5 games.
2014 Oxford, Ms Regional (3 seed) - Went chalk, losing to the 2 seed (Washington), beating the 4 seed, losing again to Washington. Only scored 6 runs in 3 games.
2015 - Missed tourney
2016 Gainesville Regional (2 seed) - Lost to UConn in opener, battled through loser's bracket, lost to Gators in game six 10-1. Like 2012, really had no chance against #1 national seed.
2017 - Missed tourney
2018 - Missed tourney
2019 Atlanta Regional (top 8 national seed) - Auburn, enough said
2020 - No tourney (Covid)
2021 Nashville Regional (2 seed) - Beat Indiana St twice, lost twice to #4 national seed Vanderbilt. Similar chances to 2012 and 2016.
2022 Knoxville Regional (2 seed) - Lost to Campbell in opener, battled back through loser's bracket, lost in game six to #1 national seed Tennessee 9-6. Similar chances to 2012, 2016, and 2021.
2008 Athens Regional (2 seed) - We won first 2 games, but then lost badly to #8 national seed UGa twice. I remember thinking at the time that CDH cost us this one by panicking in game 7. UGa was playing their 5th game in 4 days and had no pitching left. We had a rested starter in Zack Von Tersch. ZVT struggled in the first, Hall pulled him, and all of a sudden we also had no pitching depth. We had the advantage and Danny gave that advantage away.
2009 Atlanta Regional (1 seed) - Lost to Southern Miss in the winner's bracket game, then beat them once but not twice trying to come back through. Tried to use Deck McGuire on just 2 days rest...didn't work.
2010 Atlanta Regional (Top 8 national seed) - Won first two games, but then allowed Bama to beat us twice. We had pitching depth, with three future MLB pitchers in McGuire, Jed Bradley, and Brandon Cumpton, plus a solid Mark Pope (don't think he ever pitched in MLB, could be wrong).
2011 Atlanta Regional (1 seed) - Lost the opener to Austin Peay 2-1, then battled through the loser's bracket but losing to Mississippi St in game six 7-3. Bats went cold.
2012 Gainesville Regional (2 seed) - Lost twice to #1 national seed Gators. No real chance here, just overmatched.
2013 Nashville Regional (2 seed) - Lost opener to 3 seed Illinois, battled through loser's bracket, beat Vandy once on a great performance from Heddinger, but lost game seven 7-1. Bats never got going all weekend, scoring just 21 runs in 5 games.
2014 Oxford, Ms Regional (3 seed) - Went chalk, losing to the 2 seed (Washington), beating the 4 seed, losing again to Washington. Only scored 6 runs in 3 games.
2015 - Missed tourney
2016 Gainesville Regional (2 seed) - Lost to UConn in opener, battled through loser's bracket, lost to Gators in game six 10-1. Like 2012, really had no chance against #1 national seed.
2017 - Missed tourney
2018 - Missed tourney
2019 Atlanta Regional (top 8 national seed) - Auburn, enough said
2020 - No tourney (Covid)
2021 Nashville Regional (2 seed) - Beat Indiana St twice, lost twice to #4 national seed Vanderbilt. Similar chances to 2012 and 2016.
2022 Knoxville Regional (2 seed) - Lost to Campbell in opener, battled back through loser's bracket, lost in game six to #1 national seed Tennessee 9-6. Similar chances to 2012, 2016, and 2021.
leatherneckjacket
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How we lost to the midget pitcher Bama sent out there in 2010 is beyond me.
FredJacket
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Jackson Vaughan = WINNER!