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2016 Defense

Discussion in 'Georgia Tech Football' started by IronJacket7, Oct 24, 2016.

  1. IronJacket7

    IronJacket7 Helluva Engineer

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    When you look at the first seven games of the season our DEFENSE gave up:

    14 points to Boston College - 14 in the 2nd half
    10 points to Mercer - 3 in the 2nd half
    7 points to Vanderbilt - 0 in the 2nd half
    26 points to Clemson - 3 in the 2nd half
    21 points to Miami - 7 in the 2nd half
    37 points to Pittsburgh - 16 in the 2nd half
    24 points to Ga. Southern - 14 in the 2nd half

    When we play good offensive teams i.e. Clemson, Miami, and Pitt we give up more points. Most defenses do the same. The Pitt points are misleading. The tipped pass for 7 points was bologna. Also the failed 4th and 1 gave them 3 points. I don't know if Ga. Southern is good offensively or if that game was somewhat of an anomaly.

    Our Defense is averaging 19.8 points against per game. We are ranked in the low 30's nationally out of 120+ teams in points allowed. We are playing good enough Defense to win. The Clemson and Miami games our offense didn't give itself a good chance to win. We all know the Clemson game the offense was horrible with 23 yards at halftime. Our defense kept if from being worse than it was. The Miami game our offense gave up 14 points of turnovers.

    From the numbers, you could say we are playing better 2nd half defense by CTR's halftime adjustments. And if you go back and look since CTR has been here he has been pretty good at 2nd half adjustments.

    We are by no means where we want to be defensively but we are not as bad as some might suggest. Out of 100, I would grade us somewhere between 80 and 85. We aren't going to regularly shut teams down but we play good enough paired with the offense we run to win 8 - 10 games yearly IMO.

    If our offense averages 6 to 7 possessions a game and we score touchdowns on 4 to 5 of those then our Defense plays well enough to help us win.

    The Vanderbilt game IMO is a good example of what we are capable of if the Offense, Defense, and ST show up to play at the same time.

    CTR is not the greatest DC in the country I agree, but he is pretty darn good and we are lucky to have him. And its like CPJ has said if we had the budget to go pick and chose what DC we want like the Alabama's of the CFB world then who knows.
     
  2. MWBATL

    MWBATL Helluva Engineer

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    They just scored 22 points in their last game against New Mexico State. So, I guess CTR's defense is about the same as New Mexico State's defense. Yup, sounds about right to me.

    Seriously, the ONLY sensible way to measure our defense is either ppp (points per possession) or yards per play (app), and we rank VERY low statistically in both categories. I believe we are somewhere in the 80's out of 125 or so teams. In other words, not good.

    It had been said many times, but since our offensive style leads to fewer plays and fewer possessions in a game, the stats such as yards per game and points per game are quite meaningless for a style of play like ours. It;s like playing the old Four Corners in basketball and then claiming since we yield so few points per game that we are a fabulous defense. Makes you want to go "what?".
     
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  3. Oldgoldandwhite

    Oldgoldandwhite Helluva Engineer

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    I measure defenses on 3rd and 8 or better. Ours has been putrid for a looooong time.
     
  4. IronJacket7

    IronJacket7 Helluva Engineer

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    I think there are too many measurables like PPP or YPP. At the end of the day, who scored more points is all that matters. There are just way too many variables. In football the offense typically has the upper hand. Its more easy to score than it is to stop someone from scoring. Especially in today's style of college football there are so many ways to attack a defense. Granted there are many ways to attack an offense but its not the same.

    I don't believe we are a great defense but I do know we are a good enough defense to win if our TOS executes. Fact is in the Clemson and Miami games the TOS didn't execute well. Pitt game the ball didn't bounce our way.
     
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  5. Jmonty71

    Jmonty71 Helluva Engineer

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    Yet, we rank 125 out of 128 on 3rd down. If you call that good. We have 2 different meaning of the word. Why wait until the half to make adjustments? Good DC's can adjust in mid-game. You aren't proving any points. Old DCs adjust at half. The reason why we give up little points is because the the offense is keeping the ball. Common sense states, if you don't have the ball, you can't score. When our offense struggles, the true nature of our defense is revealed.

    http://georgiatech.blog.ajc.com/2016/10/23/taking-a-closer-look-at-techs-third-down-shortcomings/
     
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  6. AE 87

    AE 87 Helluva Engineer

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    I am simply dumbfounded. How can anyone misunderstand the point of the poinrs per game vs points per drive thread so badly?
     
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  7. Jmonty71

    Jmonty71 Helluva Engineer

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    Yeah, why use the overall stats, when you can cherry pick and get whatever is good? Low scores equal ball control. Ball control is due to offense. Things like YPP, YPC, TOP, 3rd down Conv, number of punts forced all tie directly to the defense. Go ahead and look those stats up. If you blend everything, we rank in the 80s. Yeah, total points matter, but it's due to the offense that the total points aren't as bad as they are.
     
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  8. CuseJacket

    CuseJacket Administrator Staff Member

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    Trying to bring two vantage points together...

    I think the expectation of scoring a touchdown on 4 to 5 out of 6 or 7 possessions is essentially saying "if we have the best offense in the country" then our defense is good enough to help us win. This is the crux of @Longestday's thread, as well as @AE 87's points per drive stats.

    Both sides have things to improve, so I don't want to go there.

    I think a question for those who feel the defense is adequate is, how many points to do you expect the offense to produce if they only get the ball 8 possessions a game?
     
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  9. Jmonty71

    Jmonty71 Helluva Engineer

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    To answer that. at least 35 points a game. 40, if we want a better chance of winning. If we score less than 28, the chances of winning go down. Just stating a fact. Do we want to win games by 1 point. If so, we can break it down to 20 per game and hope that we score enough. However; in the mix... 3 inept offenses, 1 FCS school. Miami, Pitt and Clemson are the norm, to me. Take those stats and you have a true reflection as to what to expect. Duke and UVA should be wins.. Should be... Duke has had our number the last few years. UVA isn't good, but if the offense doesn't show up, that's a loss. UGA and UNC equal Pitt and Miami. VT is a little better. So, you tell me..
     
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  10. Rock

    Rock Helluva Engineer

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    We hang our hat on Vandy & BC wins, whom are terrible. Throw Mercer out and GA SO. was supposed to be a blowout according to most posters on here.
    TR's D simply is bad. Has been bad everywhere he has been. He usually doesn't stay anywhere long enough to "build" anything. Any success he has had, he has inherited the D.
    Now the excuse here is the academics, restrictions etc. etc..... He is just not a very good coach. He may recruit well (I don't think so, ask AU) but he just can't coach them up or be effective.
    If you point out it is the players fault, then you are proving my point that he is not a good recruiter or he help doesn't develop those players.
     
  11. IronJacket7

    IronJacket7 Helluva Engineer

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    28-35 imo.

    If the Defense is averaging 19.8 per game they are giving up then I don't think its a lot to ask 28 to 35 on average from the offense. Scoring on 4 to 5 out of 6 or 7 possessions doesn't qualify a "if we have the best offense in the country" That's averaging and on average that would be us scoring 66% of the time we possess the ball.

    The top offenses in the country are averaging 40+ points per game. So averaging 28 would not make us the "Best Offense in the County."
     
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  12. IronJacket7

    IronJacket7 Helluva Engineer

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    I'm guessing you missed the Clemson and Miami games. The Defense was the reason it wasn't worse.
     
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  13. Rock

    Rock Helluva Engineer

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    Clemson let off the gas (although some will deny).
    and
    Clemson has struggled with some poor teams this year. THEY may be the reason it wasn't worse.
     
  14. CuseJacket

    CuseJacket Administrator Staff Member

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    Few offenses in the country average 28 points per 8 possessions. That is 3.5 points per possession.
    http://www.bcftoys.com/2016-ppd

    Other offenses get to that total, on average, because they have more than 8 possessions.

    ETA: Looks like 4 teams average 3.5 points per possession or more this year... Washington (3.88), Western Michigan (3.67), Louisville (3.58), Texas Tech (3.50).
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2016
  15. AE 87

    AE 87 Helluva Engineer

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    You really need to at least try and understand the points per drive thread.

    28-35 points in 8 drives is 3.5 to 4.5 points per drive. That would easily be from top 5 to the very best in country. 3.5 ppd vs pwr5 is what we averaged in 2014 at #2, iirc.

    I think we should target 3.0 ppdvpwr5, +/- 0.2. This would still be a top 20, top 10 Offense. So, about 24 pts on average in an 8 drive game is reasonable.
     
  16. IronJacket7

    IronJacket7 Helluva Engineer

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    Clemson Game:

    Out of 11 total possessions the GT offense scored 1 time.

    Out of 12 total possessions the Clemson offense scored 4 times. A field goal in the second half.

    Pretty good defense against the best offensive team on our schedule in a game where our offense was the worst its been in the CPJ era.
     
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  17. Augusta_Jacket

    Augusta_Jacket Helluva Engineer

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    Ahh. The transitive property of college football...

    So, since we held Clemson to fewer points than Louisville, our D is better than Louisvilles...
     
  18. IronJacket7

    IronJacket7 Helluva Engineer

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    But don't you see that the PPD is misleading? We have less possessions than everyone else you are looking at/comparing. And typically we have less turnovers and go for it on 4th and short in situations other teams would not. The offense we run in nature scores more on possessions than a typical offense. However, this season and last have been horrible. I think the answer is not consolidated within the PPD statistic as you believe. I get what you are saying but I feel there is more to it than the PPD stat. By the nature of what our offense does we should be able to score on 66% of our offensive possession. However, we are not and the defense is catching the brunt of much frustration by the fan base. I agree the Defense is not stellar. But what I am saying is the statistics are misleading and looking at it on paper the defense is much worse.
     
  19. Augusta_Jacket

    Augusta_Jacket Helluva Engineer

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    I would be more worried about this stat if our Red Zone defense, ranked 18th, weren't so good.

    http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/704

    As it is, we are bending, but we're not breaking nearly as often as people think.
     
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  20. IronJacket7

    IronJacket7 Helluva Engineer

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    o_O LOL
     
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