Conference Realignment

[stinger78]

All you need to know about “has Miami sucked” is how many coaches they fired. Different programs have different standards for “suck” and Miami holds themselves to a higher one than you are - to the one they haven’t met, that they were hoped to meet.

I’m not saying the ACC was doomed by them having a handful of average seasons; but their last 20 years have entirely, completely, failed to match the 20 years before that.

Like if the Big 10 had added 7-9 win GT and then gotten twenty years of 3-5 wins.

No, because Miami didn’t go 20 years of 3-5 wins.

Since joining the ACC (20 years) they have had exactly two (2) five-win season. Here they are by number of wins since 2004:
0-4 wins - 0
5-wins - 2
6-wins - 3
7-wins - 7
8-wins - 2
9-wins - 5
10-wins - 1

8 of their 20 ACC seasons they’ve won 8-10 games. No, that’s not the pace they cut the 20 years previous, and that’s an issue, but the ACC doesn’t suck because of Miami.

The ACC sucks because UVA has pulled only 2 winning seasons since 2011. Dook has pulled 13 losing seasons and Wake 11 in that same 20 years Miami’s been around. And… Georgia Tech pulled three IAR 3-win seasons and two 5-win seasons out of the last 7 years. If we’re going to assign blame for that, let’s hit the right target.

 

[slugboy]

Miami SP+, up to 2019. Notice that they have a bunch of titles, join the Big East, fall apart, rebuild themselves to win a title, then join the ACC and fall apart with occasional spikes of being good. They had 4 straight years in the top 5, including a championship, and then joined the ACC.

We were expecting that perennial top 5/top 10 team. That’s not what we got.

 

[cpf2001]

No, because Miami didn’t go 20 years of 3-5 wins.

Since joining the ACC (20 years) they have had exactly two (2) five-win season. Here they are by number of wins since 2004:
0-4 wins - 0
5-wins - 2
6-wins - 3
7-wins - 7
8-wins - 2
9-wins - 5
10-wins - 1

8 of their 20 ACC seasons they’ve won 8-10 games. No, that’s not the pace they cut the 20 years previous, and that’s an issue, but the ACC doesn’t suck because of Miami.

The ACC sucks because UVA has pulled only 2 winning seasons since 2011. Dook has pulled 13 losing seasons and Wake 11 in that same 20 years Miami’s been around. And… Georgia Tech pulled three IAR 3-win seasons and two 5-win seasons out of the last 7 years. If we’re going to assign blame for that, let’s hit the right target.

It’s relative.

It’s really that simple: it’s relative. GT fires coaches for 3-5 wins or only very eventually for 7. Miami fires coaches for 6-8 wins.

GT hurt the ACC by getting worse and so did Miami, they were expected (even by themselves) to carry a heavier load. Conferences need top dogs.

(It’s not like those numbers are even much better than GT’s - 3 9 wins, 2 11. And Tech fans also aren’t very happy with the last 20 years overall, despite not being 90s Miami right before it.)

 

[Techster]

 

[gte447f]

Isn’t this a GT site? Why are we spending so much time talking about UM? I hate those bastids.

Because it hurts too bad to talk about how GT has been far worse than Miami, and actually one of the worst bottom feeders in the conference. Ouch.

 

[yeti92]

It’s relative.

It’s really that simple: it’s relative. GT fires coaches for 3-5 wins or only very eventually for 7. Miami fires coaches for 6-8 wins.

GT hurt the ACC by getting worse and so did Miami, they were expected (even by themselves) to carry a heavier load. Conferences need top dogs.

(It’s not like those numbers are even much better than GT’s - 3 9 wins, 2 11. And Tech fans also aren’t very happy with the last 20 years overall, despite not being 90s Miami right before it.)

Yep, if we compare to Tech's record over the same 20 years:

0-4 wins - 4
5-wins - 2
6-wins - 1
7-wins - 7
8-wins - 1
9-wins - 3
10-wins - 0
11-wins - 2

Pretty dang similar, with the exception of Tech having some higher highs (thanks Paul) and lower lows (thanks Geoff). Both paint a picture of fairly mid-tier teams though, and that's not what Miami was brought to the ACC to be.

 

[cpf2001]

Because it hurts too bad to talk about how GT has been far worse than Miami, and actually one of the worst bottom feeders in the conference. Ouch.

GT has been basically just as good, except for three years under Collins. But if you’d told us in 2003 that GT would be a peer to Miami for the next 20 years we’d be thinking serious title contention…

 

[stinger78]

Because it hurts too bad to talk about how GT has been far worse than Miami, and actually one of the worst bottom feeders in the conference. Ouch.

So we just blame Miami instead.

 

[stinger78]

Yep, if we compare to Tech's record over the same 20 years:

0-4 wins - 4
5-wins - 2
6-wins - 1
7-wins - 7
8-wins - 1
9-wins - 3
10-wins - 0
11-wins - 2

Pretty dang similar, with the exception of Tech having some higher highs (thanks Paul) and lower lows (thanks Geoff). Both paint a picture of fairly mid-tier teams though, and that's not what Miami was brought to the ACC to be.

Nor was it what GT was brought in the be. Did they really say wtte: Wow, we can get GT on the cheap to take over for Dook and Wake in the bottom tier.

No, they saw us a a quality program in the doldrums. Miami was a hot program that was overdue for a cool down.

Meh… when does fall practice start?

 

[stinger78]

Miami SP+, up to 2019. Notice that they have a bunch of titles, join the Big East, fall apart, rebuild themselves to win a title, then join the ACC and fall apart with occasional spikes of being good. They had 4 straight years in the top 5, including a championship, and then joined the ACC.

We were expecting that perennial top 5/top 10 team. That’s not what we got.

View attachment 16188

If the ACC really brought in an historically mediocre program that was on a hot streak and expected them to be perennially hot, then the joke’s on the ACC. No program stays hot that long.

 

[gtbb]

It always felt like the difference with NC State was that they usually won the games they were supposed to win. Whereas UNC, Miami, and Tech always had these wtf losses.

NC State has had a run of solid football seasons. They're never great, but never awful, and seem to have settled into 8-9 wins like clockwork. Not sure what it will take for NC State to get to that elusive next level. They just can't quite get to that top tier in conference. And they have a good fanbase. They sellout just about every game, and seem to be "into" the games.

 

[gtbb]

No, because Miami didn’t go 20 years of 3-5 wins.

Since joining the ACC (20 years) they have had exactly two (2) five-win season. Here they are by number of wins since 2004:
0-4 wins - 0
5-wins - 2
6-wins - 3
7-wins - 7
8-wins - 2
9-wins - 5
10-wins - 1

8 of their 20 ACC seasons they’ve won 8-10 games. No, that’s not the pace they cut the 20 years previous, and that’s an issue, but the ACC doesn’t suck because of Miami.

The ACC sucks because UVA has pulled only 2 winning seasons since 2011. Dook has pulled 13 losing seasons and Wake 11 in that same 20 years Miami’s been around. And… Georgia Tech pulled three IAR 3-win seasons and two 5-win seasons out of the last 7 years. If we’re going to assign blame for that, let’s hit the right target.

Miami, IMO, would have been built back to championship status if Mark Richt had stayed and not had health issues. He retired due to health problems. But he had that program doing better his first two years than anything they had done in years prior to his arrival. I think by 2018, he was having a tough time with the job and his health, and it showed as his offense fell apart. He got them going on an IPF, and he was putting more emphasis on recruiting. But him leaving after just 3 seasons kinda set them back (again)....

 

[iceeater1969]

It’s relative.

It’s really that simple: it’s relative. GT fires coaches for 3-5 wins or only very eventually for 7. Miami fires coaches for 6-8 wins.

GT hurt the ACC by getting worse and so did Miami, they were expected (even by themselves) to carry a heavier load. Conferences need top dogs.

(It’s not like those numbers are even much better than GT’s - 3 9 wins, 2 11. And Tech fans also aren’t very happy with the last 20 years overall, despite not being 90s Miami right before it.)

Why split the tv money on equal basis if some schools find 4 win season the bottom and others 7?

200 pages ago i said fsu clemson and espn feel like some of the bottom feeders like gt nèed to up their game and some bottom feeders with low tv market need to leave. He who has the gold makes the rules. The GOR helps set the price.